GUILTY! Verdict for three UK Muslims who handed out leaflets calling for the execution of all homosexuals

Just keep spreading more Muslim fear

I would like to present this video, in defence of some concepts and "controversial" ideas, that I am quite attatched to.

Namely, Liberal democracies, freedom of thought,freedom of conscience,women's rights,gay rights,bi-sexual rights,trans-sexual rights,and trans-gender rights, the rights to differing beliefs,or no belief at all.Only in the "the West" can I defend them,because it's here they exist. They are enshrined (only here) in law,and enforced.

Tarek Fatah, is a self described Marxist, and a Canadian Muslim and he puts fourth both a strong,and a chilling rejection of our path (free thinkers, non-conformists, us, the people, you and me) Please,please take the time to hear the man's message,it should not be ignored. Starts about at the 1;30 minute mark.

He was one of the founders of the Muslim Canadian Congress in 2001 and served as its communications director and spokesperson until 2006. In this capacity, he has spoken out against the introduction of Sharia law as an option for Muslims in civil law in Ontario, Sharia banking in Canada, which he has described as a 'con-job', promoted social liberalism in the Muslim community and the separation of religion from the state, and endorsed same-sex marriage. He resigned as the communications director of the MCCin August 2006, claiming that his public profile as a socially liberal Muslim had put him and his family at risk

To the left-leaning members of our newsvine community,I do not begrudge you your harsh criticism of America.I think it's the never ending self criticism that improves the state of us all.I will engage in some harsh criticism,shortly myself.Nothing is above criticism,exploration, or examination.

My "prophet" was a disgusting"dude" who said

if,and that is a big

"IF", an idea is worthy, it will flourish in an intellectual realm.

But the debate must be open, and not be dependent on the "feelings" of those to be critiqued for their beliefs or actions in support of said beliefs.It's not individuals under scrutiny, it's the ideas they support.The ideology or "school of thought" in the classic Greek sense of the word.They should be explored,and held up to the harsh light of day. Sunlight not only illuminates,it disinfects as well.

western civilisation has a rich history of this, as this article reminds us.Lessons from 'The School of Athens!' that Qom and Al-Azhar need to learn by iqbal.latif.

Why do we need reminding?

It's our history,our heritage.

Even if we don't happen to be, Greek.

Some of the distinctness of ancient skepticism lies in the fact that it is developed by philosophers who genuinely think of themselves as skeptics. In later epistemology, skepticism is largely construed from the outside. In particular, early modern skepticism is, for the most part, conceived by philosophers who aim to refute it. But ancient skepticism is explored by skeptics. “Skepsis”means investigation, and ancient skepticism is perhaps best described as a deep and persistent commitment to investigation.

Criticism is a good thing, but not to the point of "eating your young"

So I have looked at other "schools of thought"( Sunni Islam / 85% of Muslims are Sunni) "cultures", or philosophy, to see how they look back at us.

We have a lot to go over.

What will the world be like, when a child born today,reaches the age of twenty five. Will there still be a struggle (jihad) going on between Islam (dar al-Islam)and the West (Dar al-harb)? the definitions give a clue.

This forces me to raise some most unpopular questions, on some widely held beliefs.While I recognise America is not at war with Islam.

Islam,is at war with disbelief,in it self. Failure to obtain proper and full submission, will end always with bloody results.

Can everyone with a differing opinion, from the "politically correct club", be dismissed as "Faux-News" can you consider yourselves intellectually honest, after doing so?

Muslims are people, who can be, or do, anything they please.Islam is submission to an Orthodox ideology.It's legal rules and code can be documented. And critiqued.

read the full article here

My "boy" Santorum? So now you're throwing out racists comments too?

Where on Earth do you get racism from that?

I meant your boy Santorum as in your fellow Christian Santorum who'd have gays inprisoned not to mention Pastor Kayser who supports Ron Paul wants gays executed.

As I said, Muslims are not the only homophobic bigots.

And for the record that's not an attack, that's well documented evidence. Just read about how Santorum got booed off the stage a few weeks ago because of his views or about his interview a few years ago where he compares homosexuality to polygamy and bestiality or even having sex with objects.

Your boy

I found that the most amusing part of his comment.

Santorum would have homosexuals inprisoned if he had his way, funny how you don't mention that

we are perhaps, not employed at the physic friends hot line, and can not read minds as Andrew implies (he can) with his comment.

no it isnt about politics it's about reality, and it's about what happens when fantasy gets forged into reality. This can be linked back to all the abrahamic religions. They all have murder gay people in their books, and it's not just the muslims pushing for genocide of gay people in africa. Elaine muslims are not the only ones advocating murder of gay people. It all stems down to the root abrahamic religion. all three schools of abrahamic religions are three peas in the same pod. It's one reason they cannot stand each other, and some say the koran is a extension of the bible, which was a extension of the torah. What Andrew said is completely valid.

It all stems down to the root abrahamic religion. all three schools of abrahamic religions are three peas in the same pod. It's one reason they cannot stand each other, and some say

Muslims say that.Only in Islamic theology is the Quran connected with the bible or torah.

the koran is a extension of the bible, which was a extension of the torah.

Are you a Muslim ? if not, why endorse Islamic dogma ?

I am not Christian,Jewish or Muslim so I dont spred the dogma of those faiths.

"Abrahamic religions"

We hear this term often. I wonder if most people know it's origin ?

The expression 'Abrahamic religions' originates from the Qur'an's
repeated references to the 'religion of Abraham'

So the claim, is one based only on Islamic theology,and others are required, to submit to the assertion.

I do not subscribe to Islamic theology,is there any reason for me to "submit"
to this claim?

No

There is in fact, no reason for me to believe it.

Other than the ever present threat of violence, directed at those who do not "submit"

Islam is the religion of submission.Violence since it's inception, has been used as the instrument to gain said submission.

(see Surahs2:130,135; 3:95; 6:123,161; 12:38; 16:123; 22:78). In particular, this expression refers specifically to Islam, and is sometimes contrasted to Judaism and Christianity, as for example in Surah 2:135: "They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with God." In the Qur'an, Abraham is declared to have been a Muslim,'not a Jew nor a Christian' (Surah 3:67).

That is a big claim there. (unsupported) in any independent source.

Violence since it's inception, has been used as the instrument to gain said submission.

Funny how you forget that Christianity is just as evil. 9 Crusades, tons of inquisitions, witch trials, Hitler, Milosevic. I can keep going but I think my point is made.

Oh and let's not forget that you guys follow a guy who has killed millions by your own bible on a whim and not just sinners but even children and you guys continue to follow such a filthy piece of shi* God. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

9 Crusades, tons of inquisitions, witch trials, Hitler, Milosevic. I can keep going but I think my point is made.

if your point is proving an irrational antipathy toward Christians, and a profound deficiency in the knowlage of history. yes, then you have made a point.

Crusades are what is commonly called Christians fighting back, The Islamic Jihad, or the killings, enslaving, raping, and conquering of land, had started around four hundred years earlier.

Mohammad sent letters to the neighbouring kings or rulers expressing his personal desire that they submit to his will. (Islam is the religion of submission) One such letter can be found here. This is the justification for the conquest of the Byzantine empire and Europe.

The Spanish Inquisition, was the method of expelling the Islamic invaders. Had there not been an invasion, it's probable that there would have been no inquisition.

The Salem witch trials, murdered around twelve innocent women.

Please link directly Hitler or Milosevic using Christian text justifying their actions.thank you

Oh and let's not forget that you guys follow a guy who has killed millions

Jesus ? please source your body count.

You guys ?

I am a traditional Irish monotheistic pagan, a child of the goddess Danu (tuatha De' Danann)

Funny how you forget that Christianity is just as evil.

While,I admit I do not know the Theology of Christianity that well,I have read my history from historic pagan sources. They are in fact rather famous.

primary sources are the best way to understand history.

This is what Christians were doing, and it's historically accurate.

I know I will get kicked in the ass, in the afterlife for this,but an Irish pagan's defence of Christianity, using historic pagan sources, Danu forgive me (LOL)

what can we find from an aristocratic Roman pagan writer, Pliny the younger. He was sent to the south coast of the black sea by the emperor Trajan to look in to the new "Jewish" cult, cause that's what Christianity was at that time, to a Roman elitist.

The collection known as Letters, section 10:96, captures a moment in time when imperial Rome is coming to grips with a new phenomenon

the report sent back, is an extraordinary interchange, caught forever, in a historical lens

describing early Christianity (that he personally thought poorly of, to say the least)

http://www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/jod/texts/pliny.html

They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime,

no, criminal activity

but not to commit fraud,

no fraud

theft,

no theft

or adultery,

no f-ing around on the wife

not falsify their trust,

trustworthy in Rome,$hit, they're just asking for death.really bucking the system.

nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so.

what were they thinking ? Good G*D man !

When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food.

plain food ? no orgy afterwards ?

Feed them to the LIONS !

Even this, they affirmed, they had ceased to do

I said they better F...ing stop, and they said, they would

after my edict by which, in accordance with your instructions, I had forbidden political associations. Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses.

But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition.

the only way you know that they had nothing to else to say,is torture them to death.

compare and contrast, the Christian Martyr, with an early Islamic Martyr, killing in the name of 'allah'

Now islam from a primary source

Ibn Isḥāq, (born c. 704, Medina, Arabia—died 767, Baghdad), Arab biographer of the Prophet Muḥammad whose book, in a recension by Ibn Hishām, is one of the most important sources on the Prophet’s life.

Ibn Isḥāq was the grandson of an Arab prisoner captured by Muslim troops in Iraq and brought to Medina, where he was freed after accepting Islām. Ibn Isḥāq’s father and two uncles collected and transmitted information about the Prophet in Medina, and Ibn Isḥāq soon became an authority on the Prophet’s campaigns.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/280772/Ibn-Ishaq

Mohammad the "prophet" of Islam was in fact, a murderous,misogynistic anti semite.As a reading of his biography Sirat Rusul allah (by Ibn Ishaq) will prove with out a shadow of a doubt.(from page 84)

In the morning the Qurayza came down from their fort to surrender to the apostle of
Allah, and the Aus begged that - as the apostle had dealt leniently with allies of the
Khazraj - he would do the same for the allies of the Aus. The apostle said, 'Would you
like one of your own people to decide their fate’ and they welcomed it. He continued,
'Then let Sad b. Muadh decide.' Sad had been struck by an arrow in the defence of the
Ditch, so his people mounted him on a donkey - with a leather pillow under him, for
he was a stout and handsome man - and brought him to the apostle. They told him,
'Deal kindly with thy allies, because the apostle of Allah has appointed thee for this
purpose.' But they entreated him too much and he said, 'Sad will take good care not to
incur the censure of Allah by fearing the censure of men.' Then some of his people
went away and lamented for the men of the Banu Qurayza, before Sad even reached
them, because Sad had spoken thus.

When Sad appeared the apostle said to the Muslims, 'Arise in honour of your chief!”
Then Sad asked, 'Do you covenant with Allah to abide by my decision?' and they said,
'We do!’ The apostle of Allah also replied, 'Yes.' And Sad pronounced the following
sentence,'I decree that the men be killed, the property be divided, and the womenwith their children be made captives.' The apostle of Allah said, 'Thou hast decided according to the will of Allah, above the seven firmaments.'

'Thou hast decided according to the will of Allah' not only Mohammad, but a random dying soldier can know the will of "allah" ?

'allah" wants all the Jews beheaded ? and "allah' is the same g*d of the Jews ?

The apostle of Allah imprisoned the Qurayza in Medina while trenches were dug in
the market-place. Then he sent for the men and had their heads struck off so that they
fell in the trenches. They were brought out in groups, and among them was Kab, thechief of the tribe. In number, they amounted to six or seven hundred, although somestate it to have been eight or nine hundred. All were executed. One man turned to hispeople and said, 'It matters not! By God's will, the children of Israel were destined forthis massacre!’ Then he seated himself and his head was struck off.

Any male child,found without pubic hair,was a slave now,those with pubic hair were beheaded

Aisha, the wife of the apostle, said, 'Only one of their women was killed. By Allah!
She was with me, talking and laughing, while the apostle slaughtered her countrymen
in the marketplace; and when her name was called, I asked, "What is this for?" and
she replied, "I am going to be slain!" I asked why and she answered, "For something I
have done!" Then she was taken away, and her head was struck off. But I shall never
cease to marvel at her good humour and laughter, although she knew that she was to
die." She was the woman who threw a millstone down from the Qurayza fort and
killed a Believer.

Sirat Rasoul Allah by Ibn Ishaq ____________________________________________________________________— 85

Now the apostle distributed the property of the Banu Qurayza, as well as their womenand children, to the Muslims, reserving one-fifth for himself

part of the one fifth, was a young Jewish woman, who he raped, after overseeing the slaughter and or, enslavement of all of her family.

hadith Abu Dauwd.

Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:

I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/dawud/038.4390.html

Hadith Bukhari

Narrated Ibn Umar:

Bani An-Nadir and Bani Quraiza fought (against the Prophet violating their peace treaty), so the Prophet exiled Bani An-Nadir and allowed Bani Quraiza to remain at their places (in Medina) taking nothing from them till they fought against the Prophet again) . He then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims, but some of them came to the Prophet and he granted them safety, and they embraced Islam. He exiled all the Jews from Medina. They were the Jews of Bani Qainuqa', the tribe of 'Abdullah bin Salam and the Jews of Bani Haritha and all the other Jews of Medina.

http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/005.059.362.html

newsvine get smarter here

Where on Earth do you get racism from that?

@!$%#ing please, spare us the innocent act. Go call Obama a "boy" anywhere on this website and see what you get told.

Stop derailing the seed already.

Apparently it's considered so Andrew. Have fun trying to spread the truth. :) Im done with this thread.

You guys think you're so clever posting seeds about Muslims being diabolical but when your very own Christians like Fischer or Santorum or Robertson or even Kayser who calls for their execution, spew their venom about gays then you completely ignore it.

Nothing clever about it. Post one where any of those people you named have publicly called for the random execution of homosexuals.

It's not derailing when you tell the truth

Yeah it actually is, regardless of the validity or truthfulness of the derail. When a seed is about Muslims and you immediately start finger pointing at Christianity, that's a BLATANT derail. Exactly like all the Obama supporters do by pointing the finger at Bush for everything, even 3 years into Obama's presidency.

Just in case no one noticed...can I point out that this article is about a group of people...they happen to be Muslim, but forget that for a minute okay?...a group of people who are spreading freaking leaflets inciting people to murder people if they are homosexual.

And somehow, some of you seem to feel that their religion excuses that..."well, look what Christians do"...as if for some reason you feel that no one should complain and/or comment on this because of their religion.

How, just how, do the Crusades, etc...etc...etc...excuse a group of people wanting to execute members of the LGBT community? PLEASE explain that to me, because I have a great many gay friends in the design community who travel back and forth to fabric centers in Great Britian for wool products...so some of the people they wanted to kill just might have been friends of mine...I am REAL interested in how you feel that the religion of the people who wanted them dead would have excused their murder.

Personally, I am delighted they are behind bars...and I would be just as delighted if they were Catholics or Jewish or Presbyterian or the Westboro Baptist Church...I don't want people who incite murder over sexual orientation roaming the streets and passing out leaflets...do you?

I'm also willing to bet that if this HAD been Westboro Baptist Church, or some other fanatical anti gay group...every single one of you would have been on here condemning Christianity over it.

Pfffft.

The way they explained this within the comics universe

And...just how much of that is relevant to the article? Are you seriously attempting to defend people who call for the outright murder of gays with an article in a freaking COMIC BOOK?

(I mean, come on...I just adore Sheldon Cooper and BBT is my favorite show...but it's not reality.)

For every atrocity committed by Christendom in the past, you can find a parallel atrocity committed by Islamic extremists today.

And despite all that those with an irrational hatred of Christendom believe, Christianity was also responsible, to a very great degree, for the civilization of mankind, for art, and music, and literature that will last in the minds of man until the end of time, for freedom from oppression, for the end of slavery in civilized nations (although it does still exist in many Muslim countries).

The past can not be changed. The future can.

Personally, I have quite a few friends and loved ones who are gay. I support unreservedly the rights of homosexuals to marry if they so choose. I find someone calling for their death absolutely repugnant.

I'm sorry...where was the "threat to murder"?

Never mind...it was off topic anyway and has nothing to do with the article in question. Sorry, Elaine...just couldn't resist pointing out that there was no "threat" to anyone involved in the unsubstantiated quotes he posted.

Instead of spreading hatred and stupidity Andrew why don't you learn to read so you can learn about the religous concepts of the "NAZI".

Andrew is the poster child for permanent deletion from the vine.

truth hurts I guess. Not surprised tho.

the two are one in the same. no difference. Truth is not denigration. Never was never will be. The subject of the article is also about death threats against the GLBT community, and that is not limited to the islamic community. Ford crown victoria= Mercury grand marquis. Just like islam=xtianity. A few subtle differences, exactly the same esp on the subject of this article, and perfectly fitting.

I am commenting about the article, and exactly what it means, xtianity is one of the places where such abhorrant dogma started, and helped continue, thanks to invasions of the middle east.

the hypocrisy is as heavy as lead.

I am commenting about the article,

No your not, you're attempting to derail the article and finger point and Elaine is right not to allow it to happen. Off topic comments are deletable and continued arguing about it is a COH suspendable violation.