Who Are You Anyway? Left? Right?

So many people are divided by hard Left and hard Right politics......if only we could find some common ground

11 votes

#1 - Wed May 26, 2010 10:51 PM EDT

I've actually found that to be easier done than said. ; )

We agree on more than we agree that we agree on, we just need to start agreeing to agree!

13 votes

#1.1 - Wed May 26, 2010 11:21 PM EDT

Waydown1942

Mther...please rephrase that. You just hurt my head real bad. : /

9 votes

#1.2 - Thu May 27, 2010 1:23 AM EDT

Mther, Waydown, thanks. I went to bed at 10 last night and was very surprised to wake up to all these comments on my article! Thank you friends.

9 votes

#1.3 - Thu May 27, 2010 6:24 AM EDT

Sorry wd! Here's an ice pack....and a lolli. = )

What I mean is: We agree on more than we say we agree on.

Once we stop arguing on what we DON'T agree on, it will be easier to see.

Better?

9 votes

#1.4 - Thu May 27, 2010 10:02 AM EDT

vol fan in chatt, tn

I think most of us can all agree that this present ADM's incompetence and policies is destroying our country. The little stuff is not as important as the big stuff. And replacing these dip heads in leadership ought to be our number 1 priority.

7 votes

#1.5 - Sat May 29, 2010 12:08 AM EDT

Hey Vol! You betcha! And by the way, thanks for coming and saving my ass a few times on your post! luv ya!

6 votes

#1.6 - Sat May 29, 2010 12:12 AM EDT

Jim Helbig

If you are using a left-to-right political line, I fall a couple pixels to the left of dead center. Someone recently called me an uber-liberal left winger because of an article I wrote, but she failed to realize that the intent of the article was to offend everybody, not just her.

On other issues I fall pretty darn far to the right, but there are some things I refuse to discuss because of their volatility.

Elaine, I pretty much agree with everything you said except for the legalization of prostitution. Are you trying to bankrupt me? LOL! Just kidding. It is definitely a victimless crime.

One thing I do NOT believe is that the Obama administration is destroying the country. That remains to be seen.

6 votes

#1.7 - Mon May 31, 2010 7:19 PM EDT

Thank you Jim, I hope I didn't give you the impression I think the Obama administration is destroying the country. I personally hope we make it. I know you do too. :)

8 votes

#1.8 - Mon May 31, 2010 7:48 PM EDT

Jim Helbig

Of course I didn't think that, Elaine, and BTW I also want to compliment you on a very well written and thought provoking article. Like you said, we all have much more in common than we think. I honestly can't say I disagree with any of your stated positions. Good job!

4 votes

#1.9 - Mon May 31, 2010 8:44 PM EDT

Jim

Yeah, I'm uh...sorry about that...drunk posting again...

3 votes

#1.10 - Tue Jun 1, 2010 12:39 AM EDT

Jim Helbig

Yeah, I'm uh...sorry about that...drunk posting again...

Huh? If I was drunk it would probably set off the alarm on that stupid ankle bracelet thing they make me wear.

6 votes

#1.11 - Tue Jun 1, 2010 8:48 AM EDT

hey Elaine.

I missed this the first time around. Thanks for turning me on to it. I'm late, but I had to walk uphill, both ways, barefoot, in the snow, in the dark, for three days, and had to eat my shoes to stay alive while fighting off wolves and head-hunting cannibals with nothing but a pair of toe-nail clippers.

But I made it.

I love your religious stance. My views are rather iconoclastic and unorthodox, but I don't impose and I'd rather nobody imposed on me, either. To paraphrase George Patton...let that other sob die for his god, if he wants to. My "god" neither demands nor expects human sacrifices....neither will any amount of talking or bloodletting or threat of eternal damnation shake my faith.....

peace

4 votes

#1.12 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:48 PM EDT

Haven't we learned about legislating morality and that it doesn't work?

I was kicked out of a High School classroom for wearing a sweatshirt which said "You cannot legislate morality. Give it up"

The long hair and the earring may have contributed to their judgment of me, also. This was 1972, remember. Girls were being sent home for wearing jeans to school.

Fathers and mothers support your children and always put their well being first.

Children are neither pets nor belongings. Once someone becomes a parent, parenting is, or should be, their full-time job for the next 18 years. No showing up late, no slacking off, no calling in sick.

I know I know "I can't be a full-time parent if I have to work 40 hours a week"

That's not what I mean at all. By full-time parent I mean full-time responsibility, not necessarily being present. I know many hard-working single parents who are doing a great job with their kids. You're still the parent, even if your kids are in school or at a slumber party somewhere, or you are at three day business convention. Accept, and use, the responsibility. Every day.

Which is a wonderful segue to this:

Accept responsibility for your words and actions. All of them. Good and bad

People will respect you for it, even if they hate your guts.

For the g

4 votes

#1.13 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:11 PM EDT

Seems we all identify ourselves in political terms these days,

I don't and it's getting harder and harder to converse with people who seem to be threatened by that. Why must I be put into one political cattle pen or another? It does nothing but force other people to form pre-conceived notions, and therefore automatically cripples open discussion before we even get started.

I know it's hard to avoid, it really is. I'm guilty of it myself. When the first word I hear from somebody is "the president, Obummer" I immediately think two things about this person...."right-wing nut job" and "The mental capacity of a 12 year old."

And yes, it's different when I hear somebody make fun of George Bush''s name, of course. Then I think..."left-wing nut job"

My politics don't define me anymore than the contents of my refrigerator does.

3 votes

#1.14 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:26 PM EDT

Holy crap, I get talkative sometimes. Must be the coffee.

This was fun, Elaine. I wish I had been here while the party was raging :-)

5 votes

#1.15 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:29 PM EDT

redshadowwithgreenbackground

Believer, thanks a bunch for reading my article and for all your comments. I think we do have much in common. I graduated in 71 and I got kicked out of Senior Prom for going in the door with a black man as my date. Actually, we were just friends, he was my friends date but he needed to go in with a member of the senior class and so did she so my boyfriend and I switched. We later got kicked out of a local bar for doing the same thing. It was a blast, I love shoving it up the 'establishment'. So glad things have changed in America for the better.

Thanks again for your comments, I've enjoyed getting to know you better. See you around the Vine with our looney friends!

2 votes

#1.16 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:37 PM EDT

I am a middleist

3 votes

#1.17 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:16 PM EDT

redshadowwithgreenbackground

Thanks for dropping by Redshadow....I think most of us are middleist. Not so many fall far right or left in my opinion.

4 votes

#1.18 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:56 PM EDT

I agree.

3 votes

#1.19 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:03 PM EDT

I am a middleist

heehee, this is good, red :-)

I have a question. Let's say someone formed an official Middleist Party and came up with a 10=point platform......but you could only agree with 8 of those points. Would you join?

1 vote

#1.20 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:21 PM EDT

Knowlton's Rangers

Belliever at least you had shoes to wear. When I was a kid we didn't have shoes, in the winter time we wrapped barbed wire around our feet to get traction so we could walk up hill in the snow.

2 votes

#1.21 - Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:48 AM EDT

TinFoil Annie

Okay, right....mostly right.....most of the time......sometimes a little left.

8 votes

#2 - Wed May 26, 2010 11:29 PM EDT

I actually am mid-left of Center according to the Political Compass. You wouldn't know it since I am always under attack from the Left because I also lean Right on some issues. If you really want to bring out the trolls, try openly declaring support for the Tea Party Movement! What really gets aggravating is having to explain time after time to the same people that I am NOT a Rightie but end up defending them against inaccurate accusations by my side. When it comes right down to it, I try to balance both sides and weigh the evidence presented by both and then make up my own mind. If you don't like which side of the compass I land on, too Friggin' bad!

BTW Elaine, you must be my female counter part if your article is indeed an accurate description of your views (for the most part).

FR sent....

10 votes

#3 - Wed May 26, 2010 11:39 PM EDT

Citizen, agree about the Tea Party support, I've written about that too in some posts! We're You and mini you, or is that Me and mini me! ha-ha

7 votes

#3.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 6:14 AM EDT

Driftwood1

Great article Elaine. I think I fall in very similar to where you are - maybe a bit more on the conservative side :-)

2 votes

#3.2 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:40 PM EDT

Thanks much Driftwood, I appreciate your views.

3 votes

#3.3 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:58 PM EDT

Driftwood1

Thanks for the post! Very nice!

1 vote

#3.4 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:07 PM EDT

UNA_Lion

I'm center-right to most political evaluation tools, though one had me authoritarian-left.

6 votes

#4 - Wed May 26, 2010 11:45 PM EDT

http://www.nolanchart.com/survey.php

Elaine, you sound like you might be libertarian. That's what I am, and I have center, right and a few left positions.

Try this test. Not everything is left right, there is the libertarian/ authoritarian axis as well. It's only 10 questions so it doesn't take very long.

5 votes

#5 - Thu May 27, 2010 12:15 AM EDT

psychokiller

sscot, I am a borderline libertarian/conservative. I never thought of myself as a libertarian before. LOL

4 votes

#5.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 1:30 AM EDT

Sscott, just woke this morning and getting the first cup of coffee....will check out that test...

thanks....

5 votes

#5.2 - Thu May 27, 2010 6:25 AM EDT

I scored almost dead center of the Libertarian area...

Go figure! ;0)

4 votes

#5.3 - Thu May 27, 2010 9:37 AM EDT

Sscott......I fell right into Libertarian category! Will have to write my son who is Libertarian....he thinks I'm far Right.....thanks, that was very enlightening! And I learned something new about myself today.

3 votes

#5.4 - Thu May 27, 2010 9:55 AM EDT

TinFoil Annie

sscott

I just took the test and it says I am a Libertarian.

4 votes

#5.5 - Thu May 27, 2010 10:30 AM EDT

More people are libertarian than pure right or left. Most of us like freedom, and most of us are moderates on the left right scale.

People call us rightwing, because of positions on economics and smaller government. But they fail to acknowledge that many of us have different postitions on drugs, sexuality, freedom of speech, and do not have conservative views on personal freedoms.

Citizen Kane, how come you're not blue yet? Friend request sent.

8 votes

#5.6 - Thu May 27, 2010 7:12 PM EDT

Sscott, you are very astute and that was primarily my reason for writing this article. My observations as a new Viner are that we are all so much closer than we think. We all get started commenting on an article that pertains to a certain issue, and then pages and pages of arguments (mostly) ensue, and I've thought all along.....I bet we all have alot in common.....if only we knew that.

8 votes

#5.7 - Thu May 27, 2010 7:21 PM EDT

First, Elaine - good article. I too took the test from the link above from sscott since I too have often wondered where I am in situated when it comes to my political views. Anyway, I took the test, I am a Centrist. Interestingly enough, it does fall right in line with my views which can be very much middle-of-the-road. I can generally see some validity from all sides and understand that somewhere in the middle, lies a solution that no one from any side would ever be 100% satisfied with.

8 votes

#5.8 - Fri May 28, 2010 8:42 AM EDT

Hi Nicole, thanks for compliment.....I've noticed most people do fall in the middle on many issues and to me that means reasonable, open for debate, willing to listen. I think where most of us have a problem is the ones who are completely unreasonable and are extreme left or right. Plenty of articles on the Vine for them to get their panties in a knot and stomp and name call and attack. When they start that I ignore them now because there is no point in arguing with a stop sign. It's good to know that there are also alot of nice people here making it worth sticking around.

7 votes

#5.9 - Fri May 28, 2010 9:05 AM EDT

sscott,

I'm here and gone at irregular intervals but when I check emails and see a request sent, I answer it. You are looking a nice shade of blue to me now!

5 votes

#5.10 - Fri May 28, 2010 9:25 PM EDT

Sniffles-1491444

Took the test and it says I am Libertarian. It's starting to sound like we're all Libertarian...lol.

Personally though, I don't like being labelled, and I don't like when people label others. I think labeling or name calling (left-wing, right-wing, Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative, moron, egghead, hillbilly, city-slicker) takes away from any kind of successful debate of, or solution to issues and problems.

5 votes

#5.11 - Tue Jun 1, 2010 1:30 PM EDT

Damn it.....I haven't handed out so many Friends Request in one article in my entire life! Sniffles...here's yours.

4 votes

#5.12 - Tue Jun 1, 2010 9:14 PM EDT

Ha-ha CK....you're the best! Sniffles.....may I join CK as your friend? Req on the way....

4 votes

#5.13 - Tue Jun 1, 2010 9:22 PM EDT

Sniffles-1491444

Thanks Citizen Kane. Accepted.

Absolutely Elaine. :-)

4 votes

#5.14 - Tue Jun 1, 2010 11:29 PM EDT

Plantsmantx

Took the test and it says I am Libertarian. It's starting to sound like we're all Libertarian...lol.

I wonder how many people take that test and don't get a result that says "libertarian"?:)

#5.15 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:29 PM EDT

mrsrachelm

Very good article, Elaine.

6 votes

#6 - Thu May 27, 2010 1:03 AM EDT

Thanks so much

6 votes

#6.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 6:15 AM EDT

I would have to agree with sscott, you sound more libertarian than anything else to me.

6 votes

#7 - Thu May 27, 2010 1:11 AM EDT

Waydown1942

Elaine, I agree with a lot that you say. I disagree with a lot that you say. But, may I say that you say what you do most eloquently. And I do sense real sincerity in your words.

Me, well...I lean mostly to the right on most issues. But I do my darnedest to judge each issue that comes up on its merits. I can swing left when least expected to. I don't like extremes or an unwillingness to accept when a better idea comes along.

I'm an old man and I'm still learning that a lot of stuff that I think I know I don't really know as well as I thought I did.

(Darn! Now mtherof3 has me talking like her.) : \

Your posting shows an intelligence, and more importantly, a strong hint of common sense. I think you will be a great addition to this Merry Band of Viners. I bid thee welcome! : )

6 votes

#8 - Thu May 27, 2010 1:35 AM EDT

Thanks Waydown, I'm doing my darndest to learn and think issues through. I'd like to think some wisdom does come with age! Thanks again...appreciate you

6 votes

#8.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 10:02 AM EDT

(Darn! Now mtherof3 has me talking like her.) : \

*tapping foot* ahem.

5 votes

#8.2 - Thu May 27, 2010 10:33 AM EDT

Waydown1942

And I cannot think of anyone I'd rather be compared to than mther. Smarts, looks, logic, perfect kids, popularity, great sense of fashion, good grades in elementary school, a veritable social and intellectual giant of her times...ye God's! The woman is the whole and complete package. How could I want more than to be seen as her loyal menion? I am humbled by her briefest word. : ]

3 votes

#8.3 - Thu May 27, 2010 10:54 AM EDT

.....and mther's a good friend too......:)

and writes some really funny stuff!

6 votes

#8.4 - Thu May 27, 2010 10:57 AM EDT

------------>here's your cash, WayWay!!

: ) hahahaha!

5 votes

#8.5 - Thu May 27, 2010 11:36 AM EDT

Oh man. This came up on my tracker. I miss my friend waydown. Wherever you are, Way, I love you!!!!!!!!!!!! ((((((waydown1942)))))))

1 vote

#8.6 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:10 PM EDT

I consider myself pragmatic, factual, and open to looking at each issue. I prefer to discuss any issue with a minimum of name-calling and using a rational and thoughtful approach. I tend towards supporting the Constitution and Individual Liberties. I understand there are those that need help from time to time, including myself, but don't think that anybody should make it a habit. I believe in unforeseen consequences and that you get what you pay for, this includes even well meaning programs which might incentivize (sp) unproductive behavior. I like to think of myself as a pragmatic Libertarian and value consistency in ones outlook. I HATE hypocrisy and those who would misrepresent an issue and/or an "opponent". Although there are times I support what some might call Leftist views I am, by default, from the Right, due to the way I approach each issue. I find many of those who consistently take a Leftist position to be extremely obnoxious and as a result, even if all my positions were considered to be from the Left I would deny the charge. In short, not to be obnoxious, the position of those from the Left is similar to those who consider Obama Black vs White or Mulatto. It only takes opposition to a single Leftist position to make one a Righty. It's sad that a rational approach automatically labels a person as from the Right. I'm sure that any Leftest will laugh until he rolls on the floor reading this post.

7 votes

#9 - Thu May 27, 2010 3:47 AM EDT

Thank you Socrates, I have to agree with everything you said. I've been very surprised when I've commented on different posts on the Vine and tried to communicate a balanced view, to be attacked hard by the Left. Of course then I get my shakkles up and it's on! I probably seem to those on the far Left to be a Rightie and maybe I am on some issues.

Personal responsibility....that's where it's at.

8 votes

#9.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 7:23 AM EDT

Socrates1,

Funny how you and I share the same views on most things even though you approach from the Right and I from the Left, including how unrelentingly "for us or you are against us" my side can be.

I'm a redheaded step-child of the Left....

8 votes

#9.2 - Thu May 27, 2010 9:42 AM EDT

Citizen K, and this is only based on past experience, I have to agree with you. I thought you were a "Leftie" and each time I'd read your posts they'd be articulate and reasonable, so I'd have to double check you weren't from the right. In other words, and only from what I know, you seem to approach issues in a way which allows me to concentrate on your opinion and actually give it some thought.

6 votes

#9.3 - Thu May 27, 2010 1:57 PM EDT

I know, he is a libertarian, just not on the right like I am, just barely though.

I've read some of Citizen kanes posts on the war on drugs, and completely agree with him on those.

6 votes

#9.4 - Thu May 27, 2010 7:17 PM EDT

CK -- I remember you from 2008, and I didn't think you sounded very "left." Then somewhere along the way, you sounded like you changed a tad, no? ...to the right? Then, you sounded you moved center-right. Judging from these comments, sounds you have moved center-left?

5 votes

#9.5 - Thu May 27, 2010 7:23 PM EDT

Elaine, I do think the majority of us are centrists with leanings to either direction. Personally, I think extremism is a result of experiences, lifestyle and legacies. What has always worked for those and their families is what they will continue to support. Those with strong ethical values will lean to the right; those with strong social values will lean to the left. I tend to lean more to the right because I value personal freedom from taxation. We need some taxation to support structure and security, but when government starts to dictate how we are supposed to live our lives, then it has gone too far and the reasons for the tax have changed.

Thank you for the article and the opportunity to voice an opinion!

6 votes

#9.6 - Fri May 28, 2010 12:27 PM EDT

Thanks CL1, it's good for us all to express how we feel and why. This writing experiment has shown me that we all really do have more in common than we might realize.

5 votes

#9.7 - Fri May 28, 2010 12:49 PM EDT

so I'd have to double check you weren't from the right.

Funny thing is if you look at my friends list, the Right is very well represented while the Left has left for lunch...

CK -- I remember you from 2008, and I didn't think you sounded very "left." Then somewhere along the way, you sounded like you changed a tad, no? ...to the right? Then, you sounded you moved center-right. Judging from these comments, sounds you have moved center-left?

Nope, still sitting here spinning in circles and falling down on whichever side of the compass the issue pushes me to!

being a Libertarian who has a heart for those suffering through no fault of their own and being pro-business while protecting workers and anti-government can lead to some very confusing posts....

6 votes

#9.8 - Fri May 28, 2010 9:32 PM EDT

Citizen, you describe perfectly what it's like to be Libertarian! I think that's what made me want to write this, it seemed so confusing at times and then I decided, maybe I should write down what I think and see it that makes more sense! lol

3 votes

#9.9 - Fri May 28, 2010 9:39 PM EDT

CK --- I'm so glad you noticed my post 'cause I really wanted to understand where you were coming from! .. Now I see it is the same place as many of us - left, right and anywhere in between. I remember the very first article of yours that I read. It was about Canadian socialism, elements of their government (I think that was you?). It was from an article you seeded at the end of 2008 or early 2009 so I pegged you for a 'hard lefty' - lol. It didn't matter to me; I judge quality, intelligence and fairness - not labels, when it comes to respecting authors here on NV. But as time went by, I was reading differing perspectives from you; now I understand why. ;)

I didn't know that you have Libertarian leanings. I can understand the appreciation. The little reading I've done on their principles have me in agreeance, partially, anyway. I think individual rights are equally as important as the group.

4 votes

#9.10 - Fri May 28, 2010 9:54 PM EDT

Could have been when I was pushing Universal Care over HCR. I still believe that life should not depend on your ability to pay. Yep hard Left on that one. I also believe that the government is bloated and over-reaching its authority. Hard Right on that one. I also believe that you should be free to kill yourself anyway you want as long as you aren't taking anyone else with you or leaving a mess for someone else to unwillingly clean up. Now which side does that fall on?

I'm so confused.....

6 votes

#9.11 - Fri May 28, 2010 10:44 PM EDT

I think we need a libertarian in the White House, so we can all be confused together, and at least agree that we are! ha-ha Could even miraculously solve some long standing issues!

6 votes

#9.12 - Fri May 28, 2010 10:51 PM EDT

* Sneaks off to write new article inspired bey Elaine*

6 votes

#9.13 - Fri May 28, 2010 10:58 PM EDT

Citizen, When a new issue comes along, I sometimes have to hear a variety of views and think about it for while before I know what position to take.

6 votes

#9.14 - Fri May 28, 2010 11:45 PM EDT

LoL! Damn it man! Going and getting informed before popping off at the mouth? That's just un-American I tell ya!

4 votes

#9.15 - Fri May 28, 2010 11:50 PM EDT

Or, un'Vinelike for sure...lol

6 votes

#9.16 - Fri May 28, 2010 11:56 PM EDT

Socrates, just left a comment for you on your article. Man....you did good!

6 votes

#9.17 - Sat May 29, 2010 12:02 AM EDT

Thanks.

On my way over...:)

6 votes

#9.18 - Sat May 29, 2010 12:13 AM EDT

Sniffles-1491444

What a relief to know that I'm not the only one who is confused!

3 votes

#9.19 - Tue Jun 1, 2010 1:41 PM EDT

Knowlton's Rangers

I am ambidextrous I can go to the right or the left, most of time I pretty much center, I think that there is ground that we can claim for both sides. I have to agree, with waydown and CK I choose to look at each issue.

I am more independent, One thing I do not do is loose friends over these issues it is not worth it, I can agree to disagree or even change my mind due to facts. I believe in the power of the vote. I believe their are crooks in both parties and independents as well. I see my neighbors, friends, fellow citizens as the backbone of this country, not Democrats or Republicans. It is real citizens that move this country. Coming together as a country for the progress of America would cause the politicians in DC to tremble in fear.

In the wise words of my grandfather. "Son there is no difference in a Democrat and a Republican. If you took both of them to the top of a big hill stuffed 'em in a wooden barrel and nail the top on, then rolled 'em down the hill; They'd be a son of a bitch on top all the way down."

7 votes

#10 - Thu May 27, 2010 5:38 AM EDT

OH NO! That was just too damn funny! Good one KR! Gramps was a smart mo fo...

6 votes

#10.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 9:44 AM EDT

Thank you KR & CK - you two crack me up!

CK good to see you - it's been awhile!

3 votes

#10.2 - Fri May 28, 2010 10:59 PM EDT

Nicole!!! I thought you had divorced us and moved to the 'burbs of the 'burbs where there is no internet! Good ta see ya! Missed ya!

3 votes

#10.3 - Fri May 28, 2010 11:13 PM EDT

No such luck! I am still here wreaking havoc on the Vine. In fact, I have probably irritated a gent or two, but hey, it's all a matter of opinion right?

Other than that, just been a little bit busy lately...

3 votes

#10.4 - Fri May 28, 2010 11:44 PM EDT

I have probably irritated a gent or two

Get 'em Girl! Kick their butts!

3 votes

#10.5 - Fri May 28, 2010 11:51 PM EDT

maddad

great article all i can say is ditto.

5 votes

#11 - Thu May 27, 2010 5:40 AM EDT

Thanks Maddad....this is fun hearing people's views about life without a particular topic to argue or agree about.....just people saying who they are.

5 votes

#11.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 10:19 AM EDT

craig-1628694

Excellent piece! I am registered independent but tend to fall mostly center right in my thinking. I used to think we had a great government, one any person would strive to live under. Lately though I have come to fear it and that makes me very sad :(

Thanks for the article.

5 votes

#12 - Thu May 27, 2010 6:34 AM EDT

craig,

Lately? I hope you mean like the last almost 4 decades. I haven't trusted our government since they opened fire at Kent State on un-armed citizens...

4 votes

#12.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 9:47 AM EDT

craig-1628694

I didn't look at it as our government opening fire as much as a group of scared @!$%#less National Guardsman. However we are each entitled to our opinions.

But lately, say the last decade or so, it seems like they have gone off the deep end!

2 votes

#12.2 - Thu May 27, 2010 10:15 AM EDT

Craig, thanks for sharing your views here. Re: Kent State.....traumatic at the time, I thought we'd lost our minds in this country firing on college students. I spent all my high school years protesting the Viet Nam war because 50,000 dead American soldiers for a political war just made me sick. I later in life learned to appreciate the soldiers but despise the war.

4 votes

#12.3 - Thu May 27, 2010 10:27 AM EDT

Craig,

They were ordered there by the government. Had they not been there it wouldn't have happened. If the didn't have live ammo instead of just riot gear it wouldn't have happened. Sorry my friend, but yes, ultimately they are to blame for the shooting of unarmed civilians. JMHO!

I do agree with you though, in the last decade we have seen a serious increase in the hysteria coming from Washington. It would be laughable if it weren't so worrisome....

4 votes

#12.4 - Thu May 27, 2010 1:14 PM EDT

Elaine are you my long-lost twin?

We agree on just about everything

3 votes

#13 - Thu May 27, 2010 12:00 PM EDT

kjm.....we must be.....I knew when I read your posts that we must have alot in common. Thanks for reading my article and commenting. This is fun reading about other people's views. I took the test suggested by Sscott and came straight down the middle for Libertarian.

Thanks again Kjm.....:)

5 votes

#13.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 PM EDT

Welcome to the "nobody listens to you" group. I don't understand what is so hard to understand about the Libertarian philosophy, then again I have always seemed to be in a minority somehow or another.

5 votes

#13.2 - Thu May 27, 2010 12:31 PM EDT

Boy that's the truth Atsidi......get yelled at on both sides in a heated debate.....why can't people be reasonable?!

4 votes

#13.3 - Thu May 27, 2010 12:36 PM EDT

I often feel like the referee in a tightly contested sports match between two lifelong rival teams when posting....

They love me when I rule in their favor but anything else is a bad call and open to booing!

3 votes

#13.4 - Thu May 27, 2010 1:16 PM EDT

Well, I've said this before.....my interest in politics has nothing to do with ideology.....it's purely a matter of self-defense and a good source for the occasional belly-laughing, "people-are-nuts" moment :-)

6 votes

#14 - Thu May 27, 2010 1:28 PM EDT

Hi believer....thanks for your comments. I think I see where you are coming from.....some people on the Vine are interesting to converse with, and others have me scratching my head and wondering if they are on meds...and if not....maybe they should be!! ha-ha

3 votes

#15 - Thu May 27, 2010 1:32 PM EDT

They are and the rest of us should be!! /sarcasm/ --lol.

I'm a little of both with strong leanings towards common-sense. ;)

3 votes

#15.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 2:05 PM EDT

You didn't talk about same-sex marriage, and that issue bothers me. Why? Because if, in fact, this country has a true separation of church and state, then people of the same sex would be able to marry as long as it is allowable by their church.

HOWEVER, the GOVERNMENT (state) decides which of those "religious ceremonies" they are going to sanction.

Any comments on this?

2 votes

#16 - Thu May 27, 2010 1:40 PM EDT

KJM, I realized after running out of room on this article and posting it, I hadn't touched on the subject of gay marriage. I'll be honest, I've not always understood or agreed with gay issues. But I am softening my stance on alot of things, including gays mainly because everytime I really don't like something, God seems to put more of it in front of me until I sort out my attitude. Now I am truly accepting of gays and decided I am not to judge. I lean toward civil unions for gay relationships because traditional marriage is between a man and woman. But I will add that tradition in this world has me questioning that too. Divorce is all too common including my own 27 year marriage where the vows were not honored and obviously meant nothing. So what do I know?

I like the way you worded your question, if the church where the gays attend is in favor of marrying them as a couple, why can't they. And you know what? I can't argue with that at all.

I like what Bill O'Reilly said, he supports gay unions and said why can't they be as miserable as the rest of us. ha-ha....so, yeah, why not?

3 votes

#16.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 2:34 PM EDT

soggy9000

With a few exceptions here and there, I tend to side with lefties on social issues and righties on issues pertaining to the size and role of the federal government. I'm a big fan of a robust military but an opponent of (or at least deeply skeptical about) most of the uses to which the last several presidents have put that military. And while I would call myself a fiscal conservative, I recognize that there are times - like right now - when DC has to spend buttloads of my money to forestall some crisis or other. (There are after all such times in my own life.)

Across-the-board liberalism and across-the-board conservatism are equally foolish, and indeed equally dangerous. (Both are also filled with contradictions and inconsistencies.) The sensible citizen picks and chooses the best from both sides and discards the worst. Those who dwell entirely in one camp or the other make me nervous.

Elaine, thanks for starting this discussion. It's always a good idea, on a forum so often devoted to subjects on which we disagree (and sometimes harshly so), to seek those areas where we can claim commonality. Conversations like this one are far healthier for us all than the divisive ones which characterize Newsvine and other debate hosts.

4 votes

#17 - Thu May 27, 2010 1:54 PM EDT

The problem is that only those of us who are already fairly reasonable people will attend this seed! LOL. Those who actually need it (name callers, etc) will not be coming today.

5 votes

#17.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 2:05 PM EDT

John-1509117

Drugs...Eliminate the FDA, make no substance illegal. Within a matter of 10 years the average IQ in the US would increase substantially.

Taxes....everyone should pay the same percentage. Why should the wealthy pay more percentage wise than the less wealthy. We all use the same resources.

Parents.....the children are yours, take care of them! They are YOUR responsibility, not the states.

Illegals.....You broke the law. You committed a crime. Go home.

Religion....It isn't going away. Islam must be watched closely at all times.

8 votes

#17.2 - Thu May 27, 2010 8:26 PM EDT

Yeah John!!

6 votes

#17.3 - Thu May 27, 2010 8:34 PM EDT

John, I LIKE you.

5 votes

#17.4 - Thu May 27, 2010 9:25 PM EDT

John - you are awesome.

Islam AND Fundamentalism must be watched VERY closely and be scrutinized at all times.

5 votes

#17.5 - Fri May 28, 2010 10:27 AM EDT

John, Ditto!

5 votes

#17.6 - Fri May 28, 2010 12:29 PM EDT

Me thinks John's Friends List just got a boost; well of at least one anyway!

FR sent to you and anyone else on here who posted a positive response and isn't "blue" yet....

4 votes

#17.7 - Fri May 28, 2010 9:36 PM EDT

Just checked my email. you should be showing up in blue now. I too have some very wild swings in my political opinions on things that seem to keep me in a minority most of the time. Would love to see a Libertarian in the white house and at least enough in the house and senate to cause a colition to have to be formed on issues.

3 votes

#17.8 - Fri May 28, 2010 11:19 PM EDT

My new Friend! Kewl blue color ya got there!

4 votes

#17.9 - Fri May 28, 2010 11:41 PM EDT

You too. Where were all the Libertarians in the last election? They seem to be popping up more and more on the vine here lately. I am sure I was the only one in these parts that voted and am still registered that way.

4 votes

#17.10 - Fri May 28, 2010 11:46 PM EDT

Ssh, I am too! Don't tell anybody but it was a tossup between (I), (C), or (L) because I knew that the (R) and (D) weren;t for me. Too corrupted at the top levels. So I went to their national party websites and registered for the one closest to my core beliefs (L).

3 votes

#17.11 - Fri May 28, 2010 11:54 PM EDT

Citizen, Though I am now independent, the last party I was in, up until about a year ago was the LP.

I still will vote Libertarian given the chance. But I also like the liberty wing of the Repubs. They are IMO too far and few between though.

4 votes

#17.12 - Sat May 29, 2010 12:01 AM EDT

I have bumper stickers decals and anything else I can get hold of. I don't want to leave any doubt in anybodies mind that I want anything to do with the D or R label. Can't say I was all that impressed with the choice of their candidate last time, but then again, I didn't vote for the R or the D guy. C must mean constitutional party, I like those guys too.

3 votes

#17.13 - Sat May 29, 2010 12:02 AM EDT

I regularly vote for "Other" Party candidates. They usually don't get elected, but hey, I've gotta keep trying to upset the lock the two major parties have on the apple cart.

3 votes

#17.14 - Sun May 30, 2010 7:40 AM EDT

I just try to vote for whichever candidate, regardless of party who appears (or has lied the best) to have a clue, who may actually try to get something accomplished in government. The problem of course is no matter who you elect for president, congress, the senate and the house will make sure that nothing gets done - they don't listen to the people that's for sure.

The song remains the same.

4 votes

#17.15 - Sun May 30, 2010 10:44 AM EDT

neenie1991

I'm centrist mostly, an Independant thinker and voter. Lean Right on some issues, Left on others, and in the middle on most.

I am too. More left on some issues than right (according to various tests, etc.) I don't know why we have to be labeled. I have zero patience on threads where you can't make a comment with out snidely being called something just because you disagree. Can't have a conversation. It's never about the topic it's about the "party" or perception of the party or group you appear to be affiliated with. There are some hot button topics for me. I got called a liberal and a conservative (in a negative way) on the same thread two comments apart last week. I couldn't decide if that was funny or tragic.

3 votes

#18 - Thu May 27, 2010 8:56 PM EDT

Good one Neenie.....I wish everyone could recognize how much we have in common and get off the anger. Thanks for commenting, and also for the nod for my (hopefully) new career in satire! Appreciate it alot.

3 votes

#18.1 - Thu May 27, 2010 9:07 PM EDT

Chief CRD

I'm an independent thinker and I don't listen to party dogma/propaganda, I vote for who I think is the correct choice to be good for the population, not just me. I stand on two feet, most of my weight goes to the right, but I can't balance without the left. I'm adamant on some issues - drugs being one - never ever legalize a pharmaceutical for recreational use. I generally keep an open mind and am willing to listen to others ideas and opinions, that has helped me keep my mind healthy and open and has changed my stance on some issues. For the most part, the government has no business telling people how to live their lives - it has exceeded its authority and needs to be chopped down to size.

5 votes

#19 - Fri May 28, 2010 10:11 AM EDT

Good point Chief, need both legs to balance, and both ears to listen. Thanks.

5 votes

#19.1 - Fri May 28, 2010 10:28 AM EDT

Chief CRD

Both ears to listen is true, and I try to listen, not just hear (having a 5 year old and an up and coming 18 month old reminds me daily to listen). I will admit, when it comes to a very small list of subjects, I have either selective deafness or a straight through ear canal... I am after all, a salty old dog. It's hard to teach us new tricks.

4 votes

#19.2 - Fri May 28, 2010 10:35 AM EDT

Ha-ha-ha Chief....so true. From one salty old dog to another...I salute you.

5 votes

#19.3 - Fri May 28, 2010 10:38 AM EDT

I don't think I'm either though the hostile actions from the right are pushing me further left. I don't believe in gun control, but I'm pro choice. I'm pro Constitution but against rogue interpretations by activist jurors.

I don't believe in Affirmative Action, but I do believe there should be laws enacted that effectively dismantle the " Good Ol Boy " system without discriminating against anyone. I think DADT is an archaic law , but don't condone homosexuality per se , but I do think that each and every individual has the right to choose their lifestyle and face the consequences of their lifestyle.

I am Christian , something that most " Conservatives " claim doesn't exist in " Liberals " but my votes since George Herbert Walker Bush have been increasingly Democratic and the anti Obama hate is closing the door on me ever crossing party lines again. I prefer to vote for the better candidate , not the one who supports MY own views , not as selfish as some American extremists are , but I tend to vote for the candidate that will move America forward even if some of his views clash with mine, as the greater good of making America an even better nation outweighs my personal prejudices.
So I would probably say that I am slightly left of center.

5 votes

#20 - Sun May 30, 2010 8:00 AM EDT

Thanks Jai for stating your opinions. I must admit from many of your posts I wouldn't have thought we had much in common, but it seems we do. I'll view your posts a little differently in future. I don't know your age or anything, but I have found through many administrations that I've witnessed anger from the opposing side always ramps up.

I've stated on other posts that I didn't vote for Obama, but I did honestly wish him well as our new president even though his constant Bush blaming on the campaign trail and after taking office really bothered me. I'm fond of Bush and so it was offensive to me and I thought it was revealing something of Obama's character, and that he was inviting the same in return. Because, all presidents do their best, just like I'm sure Obama feels he is doing now. I'm glad to see Obama has laid off the rhetoric of blaming Bush and I think it's because once you are in that office you are privileged to information of national security that you didn't know as John Q. Public. And once you are wearing your predecesors shoes, you see they were walking a hard road and you learn to appreciate that at least they tried to do their best....the same as you are.

I worried that Obama was opening himself up for exactly what has happened. If he'd taken the attitude that our previous president had done the best he could, lets all thank him and let him retire..... and now he (Obama) will do his best and hope it's an even better job......then he wouldn't get the same types of criticizms he is getting now. Had he not bashed, he wouldn't have opened up the gates for his own bashing. Does that make sense? I'm just trying to make the point that if you present yourself as the 'greatest' and then realize you aren't, you are in fact just human like the rest of us, many won't forget you thought you were the 'greatest' and won't let him forget it either.

Any time someone presents themselves one way and then can't live up to that with 100% accuracy, they will always draw fire from those who find an opening to shoot. Politics is a tretcherous game on both sides equally. You'll remember the shameful Bush bashing, and now unfortunately Obama is getting the same. It was offensive to the 60 million or so people who voted for Bush.....and now it's offensive to the 60 million or so people who voted for Obama. Again we are a divided country. Obama would have won alot more respect had he not played the same old bash your opponent card.

I say both Bush and Obama deserve respect, they are presidents, they did and are doing their best. The infighting in this country is our own undoing. The terrorist don't need to shoot us, we're shooting at ourselves. Don't you find yourself 'defending' Obama when people insult him? I find myself doing the same for Bush. If people are going to insult, then it isn't a conversation, it's who is the better insulter.

As a Christian nation, we should not shoot our wounded.....to use a metaphor. Wounded being a former president who loves this country and did his absolute best. And wounded being a current president who is doing his absolute best. Both being 'shot' at with unkind words, and both now 'wounded'. If only we could stop this and find some common ground.

6 votes

#20.1 - Sun May 30, 2010 8:56 AM EDT

I agree, except for the part about Christian nation , we're not though we can agree to disagree civilly on this subject and save it for another forum. I assure you it will come up in the future.

My take is that we're a nation founded on religious freedom , that has adopted certain Christian traditions, different from being a Christian nation.

1 vote

#20.2 - Sun May 30, 2010 5:47 PM EDT

Jai, I stand corrected, I worded that wrong and meant founded on Christian/Judeo priciples, but you are 100% correct.....complete religious freedom or no religion at all. And I respect all rights in that regard.

Thank you very much for your comments, I'm glad to get to know you better. I will look for your posts in future.

kind regards, Elaine :)

5 votes

#20.3 - Sun May 30, 2010 6:01 PM EDT

John-1509117

Elaine-1503791

#20.1 Excellent thoughtful and insightful post. You are to be commended, friend!

6 votes

#20.4 - Sun May 30, 2010 6:03 PM EDT

Thanks John!

5 votes

#20.5 - Sun May 30, 2010 6:12 PM EDT

I'm not going to derail simply because another viner decided to make a political point. I will respond that we were founded by Christians and used the Christian value system. My article contains my views. How interesting that it is someone on the left who decided to throw in a contentious personal view.

7 votes

#20.6 - Sun May 30, 2010 6:41 PM EDT

My personal view is supported by historical fact which says that most of the Founding Father's and Thomas Jefferson were Deists.

How interesting is it that ONCE AGAIN , someone on the right wants to rewrite history for the sole purpose of advancing misguided hypocritical Religious Fundamentalism. As an EX PASTOR ( we're not all atheists on the left ) , I would be proud to say this was a Christian Nation , but it ignores historical fact, something that when convenient to the right , they dismiss and or overlook.

It would have been easy and expedient for the Founding Father's to make this a Christian Nation , Christianity was the only openly practiced religion at the time in the U.S. , but having learned their lessons from history , they opted for religious freedom and freedom from the very religion that led them to oppose the British Crown.

No matter how much evidence is presented , extremists like yourself are going to deny it , stating it's a mechanization of the liberal press , but history speaks for history, unless extremists , or The Texas Board of Education decides it's politically expedient to rewrite it.

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
Thomas Jefferson

This was a quote from the main author of the United States Constitution.

Here , here , and here , are links that delve into the history of the Founding Father's and religion. Both Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin , were Deists.

Your rant aside Socrates , I prefer true history , not the Conservsative rewrite. Yes, America adopted Christian principles into the laws and government , however that does not make it a Christian Nation , and the Constitution specifically prohibits a State Religion.

A personal view is something that is unsupported by historical fact. So it is NOT a personal view. Contentious ? ONLY if you're a Fundamentalist Extremist who ignores history for fiction.

2 votes

#20.7 - Mon May 31, 2010 7:42 AM EDT

http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_pled1.htm

" One nation under God " wasn't added to the pledge of allegiance until 1954 during the ultra right wing extremist McCarthyism Era.

Now I'm done . Apologize for the derail.

4 votes

#20.8 - Mon May 31, 2010 7:50 AM EDT

Tough debate to get caught in the middle of, but I'm going to put my two cents in (would anyone be surprised that I am?):

While we are a nation that has embraced Christianity as our main religion, we are not a Christian Nation per se. Even in the worlds eyes we are not a Christian Nation because our Constitution prohibits the establishment of a national religion. By all outward appearances and for the sake of argument, saying we are a Christian nation is not totally incorrect either if you take into account the believers vs non-believers. As of 2008, 76% of America professed a belief in Christianity as determined by this Canadian poll of the U.S. This is why it is both an accurate description but an inaccurate designation to use the term "Christian Nation" when referring to the U.S.

Just sayin'......

7 votes

#20.9 - Mon May 31, 2010 10:20 AM EDT

Hey Citizen, I corrected myself to Jai and said we were founded on Judeo/Christian principles, and that I mis-spoke about U.S. being a Christian nation. We're a nation of total freedom of or from religion. I hope that clears up my error.

4 votes

#20.10 - Mon May 31, 2010 10:26 AM EDT

JaiAllen,

We've had some sharp debates over other issues in the past but from your post above I find we are closer in views than it may have appeared. FR sent.

And one to Northern Girl as well....

5 votes

#20.11 - Mon May 31, 2010 10:28 AM EDT

http://www.monticello.org/library/reference/spurious.html

Citizen, you just made me feel really good for writing this article. It's all about friends and commonality. Thank you, sincerely.

5 votes

#20.12 - Mon May 31, 2010 10:32 AM EDT

John-1509117

JaiAllen.....This was a quote from the main author of the United States Constitution.

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
Thomas Jefferson

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."

We are asked about this one on a fairly regular basis. As with many spurious Jefferson quotes, it is frequently seen on various Internet sites. Many sites do not cite a source, but a good number of those that do attribute this quote to a letter from TJ to a "Dr. Wood." As far as we know, TJ never wrote to an individual calling him/herself Dr. Wood. Another suspicious element is the statement that he does not find in Christianity "one redeeming feature." One presumes that Jefferson did, in fact, find some redeeming features in Christianity, otherwise he would not have taken the time to paste together his own versions of the Bible. See the report Jefferson's Religious Beliefs for more information.

It appears there are some who could make use of the following from the provided link.

Do you have a question regarding a Jefferson quote (or possible Jefferson quote)? Let us know.

1 vote

#20.13 - Mon May 31, 2010 7:24 PM EDT

one redeeming feature

Oh that's easy really:

For most of us it would be the golden rule:Do unto others as you have done unto you.

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.(Luke 6:31

And for quiet a few others it would be:

I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more." (Ezekiel 34:29)

Although now we have the munchie problem unless we just eat the plant instead of smoking it...... :o)

All religions have their failings. Come on folks, these are wives tales handed down for the most part through word of mouth until somebody finally started making chicken scratches on stones and weeds (papyrus). Even now we debate the actual meaning behind the writings and if you cannot accept them as proof positive of some type of influence by an Intelligence far advanced than ours, then you are dismissing both religion and science in one fell swoop. It may or may not be a Jealous God who will roast you over a fire for eternity or a little green alien trying his hand at "Star Trek: Genesis" but we certainly have had a few kicks in the pants along the way. Either way, the morals taught by religion tend to be the good things we like about other people; honesty, hard working, generous, reliable. In that, I fully endorse them. I can do without all the killing of infidels and the smiting though....

2 votes

#20.14 - Mon May 31, 2010 8:01 PM EDT

Jefferson was the author of the Declaration of Independence.

The main author of the Constitution was Madison.

6 votes

#20.15 - Mon May 31, 2010 8:12 PM EDT

northern girl

Elaine,

Wow! Its almost like you read my mind! Are you sure you havent been spying on me or reading my diary? Great article! Keep up the good work.

5 votes

#21 - Sun May 30, 2010 9:41 AM EDT

lol.....thanks Northern Girl......funny how we all have alot in common. I was kind of afraid when I wrote this that people would jump down my throat....but the exact opposite has happened. Thanks again....from a southern girl to a northern girl....I appreciate you.

5 votes

#21.1 - Sun May 30, 2010 9:48 AM EDT

Elaine- You are a political rockstar, why did you give up writing this stuff. You could have assailed the viny powers that be with your wit and wisdom and good sense. I don't think I ever fully appreciated you till I read this article. I am lucky to call you my friend and surprised that I don't go much left of you. JJ

Our best Governors in Alaska were Libertarians, Sarah did look good picking Salmon out of a gillnet though. None of those Libertarians could say that. JJ

5 votes

#22 - Tue Jul 6, 2010 12:23 AM EDT

Hey JJ, thanks for the compliment. I wrote a couple of political articles after this one that got collapsed and it kind of took the wind out of my sails, then things got crazy on the vine for alot of friends here but I hope to write more in the future. Thanks again JJ.

5 votes

#22.1 - Tue Jul 6, 2010 6:34 AM EDT

Becks72

I enjoyed learning a bit more about you and agree with ninety nine percent of your positions.

I have a little story about one of my trips through Europe many years ago. We had to stop at each border of each small nation many the size of our states. There we would present our passports, exchange our monies and state the reason for entering there country. Recently we revisited the areas and at borders there was a sign saying you are now leaving this country and now entering another. No border guards no exchange of monies , no walls, no check point one currency.

As a child living in Detroit and from a large family we would occasionally travel to Canada for an inexpensive dinner. A courteous guard at he border would welcome us, where were you born, how long are you staying and tell us to enjoy our dinner. Now because of fear politics we are building wall between our countries (Mexico ) and need passports to enter our friendly neighbors lands ( Canada and Mexico ) at this rate we will be building a wall to protect us from Canada.

I think it was Ben Franklin that said those that would trade a little freedom for security deserve neither.

#23 - Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:08 PM EDT

Becks, thanks for coming to visit my article. 9/11 changed everything, everyone is under suspicion now even grannies and babies are searched at airports. It's just a changed world. Frankly it would be wonderful if the whole world could visit freely and I honestly think most 'normal' human beings want that. But thanks to criminals and terrorists, we're a little bit screwed.

I'm at work and have a customer waiting so can't really write any further thoughts. Thanks again.

Elaine

2 votes

#23.1 - Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:36 PM EDT

I think that europe joining hands is an interesting experiment in globalism. If the Euro survives the next big hit, they might just make it. The attempt to merge those economies has definitely made some winners and some losers. Kudos going out to Norway for placing too much value on their fishing industry to allow the globe destroying corporatists of the European union a chance to steal it. Norway would not join, nor would they be dictated to.

The Norwegian crown is the strongest currency on the continent, and the Norwegian people's lives and livelyhoods have been preserved due to some forward thinking people rejecting the notion that global corporatization is the way of the future. It's interesting to note that it is those who have embraced that doctrine the most that are still in grave danger of collapse.

So here's to the Zombie Banks of the European Union, A prayer to St. Molotov for you. JJ

Elaine- It's ok me posting a couple of views here isn't it. JJ

2 votes

#23.2 - Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:20 PM EDT

Love it JJ! I always enjoy when you show up.

2 votes

#23.3 - Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:24 PM EDT

What happened to your media gone genocide thread? It's not on my tracker, did we scare everybody away? (:

2 votes

#23.4 - Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:28 PM EDT

"Liberal Media Lies".......It's still there and getting a few comments. I was just thrilled it wasn't collapsed as the two before it went down in flames. It seems I have a way of pissing people off.

2 votes

#23.5 - Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:36 PM EDT

Elaine- I had the same thing going for a while there. Do you post on Soph's threads a lot, because I posted on one of her threads a couple of times and my next two articles got gang collapsed. Maybe it's a coincidence but I don't post on her threads and none of my articles collapse.

Maybe she is like Sybil and has 16 personalities and when you make them all mad they come over and gang up on you. JJ

1 vote

#23.6 - Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:49 PM EDT

I used to post on Soph and Killfile's articles but haven't for a long while now....and you are exactly right. I got targetted big time and I was kind of fascinated with anyone's fascination with me....as if I'm anyone important. We're all equal, I'm not talking about that, but I'm not a big player here.....just a girl with an opinion, fairly harmless.

One week, for a few days, I wondered what was going on when the same far left viners seemed to be chasing me around, every article I went on they showed up to tear me to shreds. It didn't matter if I was on a satire article about lizards, or a Palin hates babies (or whatever) article, they found me. A friend suggested I hide my comments so they can't find me so I did....and it worked. I lost them. I even had one who checked me out (my column) while commenting and kept coming back to the thread to slam me by saying "she's in the fox group! I knew it....she's lying!" or "she hides her comments because she's ashamed of what she says!" That thread was about health care and I was talking about my diabled boyfriend's condition and I fought back because I wasn't lying and they really got me mad because the subject was personal. I realized that some of these people are completely nuts, I mean certifiably crazy......and hysterical if they are challenged and proven wrong.....I told one of them that the more they say, the crazier they sound.....like scary crazy.

3 votes

#23.7 - Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:28 PM EDT

Elaine- That is whacked. That is one of the reasons that I don't go on those threads there is some really wierd and hatefull folks out there who have nothing better to do than just what you said. Sscott seems to attract whack jobs to any thread he is on too. It is discouraging to think that some would work so hard to stop freedom of speech.

I write a story about a dog that isn't very controversial, it is a fishing story. I released the fourth installment (PART3) today (there is a prelude). Between creative writing, taking pictures, photo journalism, comedy, and making fun of my haters. I am afraid I just don't have any time to post with anybody whose a-hole friends are going to collapse my articles. Why should I support them. JJ

1 vote

#23.8 - Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:13 PM EDT

The only reason I can think of at this point in my vine experience to go on those articles, is to look for victims and give them back up. I came over to the vine following a crime story and once here I checked out the front page headlines. Naturally, I decided to check out the conversation and challenge the obviously biased title....something about Palin I'm sure. I was jumped on like a duck in the water and a few people who are now my friends jumped in the discussion and defended and friended me, and it changed my mind. I was at a point of thinking....what a wierd hateful place this website is.....why would anyone hang out here with these creeps?

So I figured out who was toxic and I stayed away until recently when I thought of my first days here......so I ventured over to one of Carloz's articles to check it out and got in the discussion, and then I checked out a Soph and Killfile article and neither of them were getting many comments, so I didn't leave a comment either. But it was my first venture back in a while.

I'll have to check out your dog and fishing article JJ.......thanks for letting me know about them.

2 votes

#23.9 - Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:31 PM EDT

dmlane

I am not one to respond much about my polical views...but since Elaine took the time and effort and I will do the same:

Religion ~ Astrologer ~ go figure that one out?

Taxes ~ Don't mind doing my share...what is that btw?

Laws, Immigration ~ I agree with Elaine

FDA ~ 'cmon folks you can do a better job than this!

Parents ~ Responsibility and Accountability hand in hand with Nurture and Love

Environment ~ same as above

Disabled ~ Agree with Elaine with one addition, need better monitoring of abuse

Military ~ Drafted and served. While I may not like war and killing...I joined the Coast Guard and helped clean up some of the mess. years '72-'74

3 votes

#24 - Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:39 PM EDT

tesla013

1) Believer in a higher power

2) Taxes support the common defense Flat tax at retail level

3)LEGAL immigration

4) FDA is a joke owned by pharmaceutical companies

5) Parents; if you are one be one

6) The enviroment took care of itself before we ever appeared on this lovely planet it will probably do so long after we are gone. Do what you know is right. Common sense.

7) treat them as you would want to be treated

8) U.S. Army 86-88

1 vote

#25 - Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:34 PM EDT